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为什么一些中国学者质疑西方文明的起源?阿雅评论

2023-12-16历史

来自新加坡知名评论人阿雅,未经许可请勿转载

中国的历史爱好者中充满着一种论调:西方文明的起源充满了谎言,根本不可信。
这种认识主要是由于中西方对待历史和考古采用了不同的标准造成的。

在世界上所有的文明古国中,中华文明也许不是最古老的,但却是最特殊的。中华文明有一种非常「自恋」的气质,他们非常喜欢记录自己的历史。就像一个细心的女孩一样,她每天都把自己的经历和想法写在日记里。

世界上其他文明没有这个习惯。他们每天都不太关心昨天的事情。即使留下了一些记录,也是偶然的、被动的。当时间线拉长到2000年、3000年、4000年后。这种性格上的差异就显现出来了。

中国人对自己的文明发展有着清晰的记录,从五千年前,到四千年前,再到一千年前,再到五百年前。每年发生的事情,包括战争、灾难、外交、礼仪,甚至天文现象,都被每个时代的中国人完整地记录下来。它们有数千万字的历史记录,精确到每一年、每一天、每一个历史名人和重要事件。

这些史书数量众多,相互引用、交叉,难以伪造和篡改。这使得中国的历史记载非常可信和准确,其中最著名的历史文献被称为「二十四史」。

因此,中国学者在研究中华文明的起源和发展时,非常重视「文献」。而考古发掘、文物发现往往只作为「文献证据」而存在。

中国学者有自己的一套学术标准:二元论证。

解释说明:

要确定一个历史事件是真实的,需要两个条件。

1、有记录这段历史的历史文献(诗歌、经文、故事、小说不在此列)。

2、发现某件历史文物并用历史文献证明。

当仅满足两个条件之一时,那部分历史就被认为是可疑的。但中国学者玩的这套游戏规则对于欧美学者来说太苛刻了。

欧美学者研究较多的古代文明包括古埃及、古希腊、美索不达米亚文明、古罗马等,这些文明不像中华文明那样连续。他们基本上早就结束了或者中途崩溃了。此外,这些文明的人们很少像中国人那样喜欢记录历史。

因此,他们留下的文献非常稀疏且不系统。

大多数书面信息来自石碑、神话传说,甚至【圣经】之类的东西。这些东西都是碎片化的,没有严格的时间线和索引,缺乏相互参考和相互印证,可靠性很低。这使得欧美学者在研究古代历史时更多地依赖考古发现,即文物。

例如,欧洲考古学家发现了一块巴勒莫石碑,上面清晰地刻着古埃及多位法老的名字和他们统治的时间。于是考古学家们就开始庆祝了,哇!我们揭开了不为人知的历史。

但像巴勒莫石碑这样的东西,如果在中国发现,那就远谈不上值得庆祝了。中国学者会查阅他们的历史档案,看看这块石碑上所写的内容是否与历史记载相符,又有何不同。

如果他们发现这块石碑上的内容根本没有在历史记载中,那么很抱歉。它不能证明任何事情,只能作为文物存储,直到提供新的证据来支持这一发现。

如果一个中国学者试图根据这块石碑来得出历史结论,他立刻就会被其他同行嘲笑:傻子,你有没有想过这块石碑可能是某个时期的人出于某种目的而伪造的?

事实上,中国有大量考古发现是史书上没有的。例如,巨大的良渚古城和发现了数万件青铜器的三星堆文明,由于缺乏足够明确的历史记录,被中国人归类为「未知的史前文明」。

目前,中国已发现许多距今8000年的城市遗址和文物,但中国学者一直认为,中国的文明只有5000年。一些比较严谨的中国学者坚持认为,中国历史只能从公元前2070年算起,至今只有4000年。最挑剔的学者甚至极端的认为,只能从公元前841年开始计算,因为从那一年起,每一年都有准确可靠的记录,这意味着中华文明只有2800年的历史。

因此,虽然在古埃及、古希腊、古罗马或者美索不达米亚文明中都发现了很多文物和遗址。但在中国学者看来,这些发现只能证明这些文明确实存在。但仅仅依靠这些发现来证明和书写准确的历史是不够的。由于缺乏二元论证,研究结论很容易受到伪造的影响,不符合其学术标准。

在西方文明史上占有重要地位的古代文献,如【伊利亚特】、【奥德赛】(译者注:中国人通常称为荷马史诗),按照中国学者的标准只能算是「史诗」而不是「史书」。这是因为这些文献缺乏严格的时间线,大多只是部分故事,书写时间与历史实际时间相差太远。

因此,按照中国学者的标准,西方文明史是神话传说、宗教经典和考古推测的混合体,根本不能称为历史。

由于标准不一致,双方的认识自然会出现偏差。中国学者认为西方同行是造假者,而西方学者则认为中国同行是偏执狂。

对于普通人来说,争议是一件好事。

以下为全球网友评论:

Josh Qin

「Single evidence is invalid」: If a conclusion has only one piece of evidence to support it, then the conclusion is doubtful.

「孤证不立」:如果一个结论只有一个证据支持,那么这个结论是值得怀疑的。

Ada Bush

There is also a very special point, which is the condition of cultural relics and the description of the text. It is difficult to explain to Westerners, but in the eyes of Chinese people, many cultural relics and texts of Western civilization have a strong counterfeit nature, because it is difficult to have such a large number of exquisite artifacts unearthed, and the records of the text are even accurate. In legend, it is difficult for the writings of philosophers to have as many and pass down smoothly in that era, This is a violation of scientific common sense.

还有一点很特别,就是文物的状况和文字的描述。这对西方人来说很难解释,但在中国人看来,西方文明的很多文物和文字都带有很强的仿冒性,因为实际上很难有如此大量的精美文物出土,而且历史上的准确记载也很难保存。传说中那些西方哲学家的著作在那个时代居然有那么多,并顺利流传下来,这是违背科学常识的。

Sgl Zf

Because there are numerous small Western countries in constant struggle, in order to confirm the legitimacy of their wars, they constantly forge evidence to obtain legitimacy. This paranoia has led to their minds that only look at the present and do not believe in history today. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict today is a very significant case.

因为历史上有无数的西方小国在不断的发生战争,为了确认自己战争的合法性,不断伪造证据来获取合法性。这种偏执导致了他们的思想只看现在,不相信过去的历史。今天的巴以冲突是一个非常重要的例子。

Richard Stanfield

One fun thing is that Western scholars can use Chinese sources now to cross-reference their history. The famous Mithraidites of Pontus was said to be born in the year of a comet. Well, most scholars dismissed that as propaganda. But, thanks to Chinese sources, we know that there was a comet sighting within the range of years Mithraidites might have been born.

Regarding Homer, I don't know of any scholar since the 19th century who seriously regarding the stories as historic event. In fact, the guy who discovered Troy was widely mocked by the scholarly community for taking the stories seriously. A fascinating event, filled with tragic misuse of dynamite.

一件有趣的事情是,西方学者现在可以使用中国的资料来交叉参考他们的历史。据说著名的米特拉达梯王出生于彗星之年。大多数学者认为这是一种宣传。但是,多亏了中国的消息来源,我们知道在米特拉达梯王可能诞生的年代范围内曾目击过彗星。

关于荷马史诗,我不知道自19世纪以来有哪个学者认真地将这些故事视为历史事件。事实上,发现特洛伊的人因认真对待这些故事而受到学术界的广泛嘲笑。这是一个引人入胜的事件,充满了炸药滥用的悲剧。

Hu Bo

Western relics, most of them, too new to believe its trues.

Not all, but many are counterfeit, including famous Venus, Rossetta Stone, quite nonsense…in my eyes.

Without seeing Chinese weathering relics like stone tablet, stone carving, paper, bronze ware…. it is shame to acknowledge western’s relics trueness.

One example, All Greek gold coins, with perfect and excellent sculpture of human head, even to distinct braid.

Super craftmanship.

But ,no coin could be with round edge?

西方的文物,其中大部分都太新,令人无法相信其真实性。

不是全部,但很多都是假的,包括著名的维纳斯、罗塞塔石碑,在我眼里都是胡说八道。

许多人没有看到中国的石碑、石雕、纸张、青铜器等风化文物是什么样子……。承认西方文物的真实性是一种耻辱。

例如,所有希腊金币,都具有完美而出色的人头雕刻,甚至是清晰的辫子。

超级好的工艺。

但是操蛋的是,居然没有一个希腊金币是正圆的。

Richard Leong

The original six civilizations that spontaneously emerged without outside influence were: Mesopotamia (5,000 BC), Nile River basin (3000 BC), Indus Valley (4,000 BC), North China Plain (4,000 BC), Meso America (1,000 BC) and Minoan (2,000 BC). Ancient Greece and Rome (500 BC), later northern European, were derivatives, not original indigenous civilizations.

最初不受外界影响而自发出现的六大文明分别是:美索不达米亚(公元前5000年)、尼罗河流域(公元前3000年)、印度河流域(公元前4000年)、华北平原(公元前4000年)、中美洲(公元前1000年)和米诺斯文明(公元前1000年)。公元前 2,000 年)。古希腊和罗马(公元前500年),后来的北欧,是衍生文明,而不是原始的本土文明。

Peter Kauffner

Homer lived in the eighth century BC. He doesn’t qualify as an ancient Greek? As for Chinese civilization, I’d start with the Erlitou culture, which began around 1900 BC.

荷马生活在公元前八世纪。他不符合古希腊人的资格吗?至于中华文明,我想从公元前1900年左右开始的二里头文化开始。

Richard Leong

Ancient Greek civilisation was a derivative of the Minoan civilisation. Rice growing occurred between the Yellow River and Yangtze River as earliest as 8,000 BC. Chinese civilisation started in the North China Plain around 5,000 BC.

古希腊文明是米诺斯文明的衍生物。早在公元前 8000 年,黄河和长江之间就出现了水稻种植。中华文明始于公元前5000年左右的华北平原。

Richard Leong

China is the oldest continuous civilisation in the world. As a centralised state, China is older as a historic institution than the Catholic Church. It's the only civilisation that has risen, collapsed, risen again, at least six times. Chinese civilisation is not distinct but unique. European civilisation made the modern world. Chinese civilisation is remaking it.

中国是世界上最古老的连续文明。作为一个中央集权国家,中国作为一个历史机构的历史比天主教会还要悠久。它是唯一一个经历过至少六次崛起、崩溃、再崛起的文明。中华文明不是独特的,但是是唯一的。欧洲文明创造了现代世界。中华文明正在重塑它。

Quan Fung

That's the reason why Westerners like to live on tomorrow's…a strong narrative based on nothing but especulation and propaganda make their day !?

这就是为什么西方人喜欢生活在明天的原因……基于猜测和宣传的强有力的洗脑使他们未来的日子过得更开心

Testing Maximum

Fascinating, and so much more rigorous than the rest of the world. Though truth be told, I think the Chinese method is too rigorous.

Some artefacts by definition will not have historical records and ignoring them implies not using other proven deductive techniques to link these forgotten artefacts to the larger story. It runs the risk of missing key influences and connections, for the sake of academic purity.

Further, always, no matter by whom or when, history is written by the victors. Some of the orphaned artefacts might just be foreigners or others who influenced China but didn’t get recorded deliberately.

We’ve seen this in Egypt where deliberate methods were used to eliminate ‘inconvenient’ historical events and figures. For instance, Akhenaten, who was probably the first king in history to embrace monotheism. After his death, his history was attempted to be erased by Egyptians priests who felt threatened. If we were to follow the Chinese methods his artefacts might have been forgotten or ignored, though he was an enormously influential pharaoh, and influenced a lot of monotheist philosophers in the Middle East region.

真是令人着迷,而且中国人这种做法比世界其他地方严格得多。说实话,我觉得中国的方法有点太严谨了。

根据实际情况来说,某些文物确实没有历史记录,忽略它们意味着不能使用其他经过检验的技术来研究这些被遗忘的文物,以便与更大的故事联系起来。为了学术的纯粹性,他们冒着丢失关键信息和联系的风险。

此外,无论何时何人,历史始终是由胜利者书写的。一些遗失的文物可能只是外国人或其他影响中国的战败者留下的,但没有被刻意记录下来。

我们在埃及就看到了这种情况,那里有人故意使用方法来消除「不方便的」历史事件和人物。例如,阿肯那顿(Akhenaten),他可能是历史上第一位信奉一神教的国王。在他死后,感到受到威胁的埃及牧师试图抹去他的历史。如果我们遵循中国的方法,他的文物可能会被遗忘或忽视,尽管他是一位极具影响力的法老,并影响了中东地区的许多一神论哲学家。

Wolfgang Zoellner

In Europe written documents have often been found to be fake news, mostly written by catholic monks, who for a long time had the writing monopoly. Therefor archaeological artifacts are much higher valued as facts than documents. The same is true for medieval history in Korea, where Buddhist monks and confucian servants had a fierce competition, which written truth would be true or fake news. Unfortunatly after the Mongol invasion not much archaelogical evidence has survived.

在欧洲,书面文件经常被发现是假的,大部分是由天主教僧侣撰写的,他们在很长一段时间内拥有写作垄断权。因此,考古文物作为事实的价值远高于文献。韩国的中世纪历史也是如此,佛教僧侣和儒家学者进行了激烈的竞争,辩论书面的真相是真还是假。不幸的是,在蒙古入侵之后,他们没有多少考古证据幸存下来。

Tomaž Vargazon

I think the author's explanation is too polite to some Western archaeological results. Maybe I don’t want to offend Europeans here.

I am an archeology enthusiast, although I am also European.

But some of the artifacts found in Assyria, Greece and Egypt are just too fake, especially when compared to similar artifacts found in China. You can bet they're almost fake. They didn't even bother to do the work of wearing and fading.

The proportion of history written based on such things is too high.

我认为题主的解释,对一些西方考古结果太客气了。也许是不想在这里得罪欧洲人。

我是一个考古爱好者,虽然我也是欧洲人。

但是在亚述、希腊和埃及发现的一些文物真的是太假了,尤其是当把他们和中国发现的同类文物进行对比之后。你可以肯定他们几乎就是伪造的。他们甚至连磨损和褪色的工序都懒得做。

基于这样的东西编写的历史,编故事的比例太高了。

Omair Abbas

Look at this, an artifact discovered by the Chinese in Shaanxi Province. He was buried in the earth for more than a thousand years.

When archaeologists dug it out, they discovered it was a huge stone tablet. He has both Chinese and Syriac questions.

The stele is very complete, and its title is "Stele of Nestorianism in China Popular in the Qin Dynasty".

Probably means "the stone tablet records the popularity of Roman Christianity in China"

The stone tablet records the spread of Christianity in China during the Tang Empire, especially exaggerating the popularity of Christianity in China. Even the emperor and nobles showed great respect for Christianity.

看看这个,中国人在陕西省发现的一件文物。一千多年来他被埋在土里。

当考古学家把它挖出来之后,发现这是一块巨大的石碑。他有中文和叙利亚文两种问题。

石碑非常完整,他的标题是「大秦景教流行中国碑」。

大概意思是「石碑记录罗马基督教在中国流行的情况」

石碑记录了唐帝国时期,基督教在中国的传播情况,尤其渲染了基督教在中国受欢迎的情况,甚至于皇帝和贵族都对基督教表示极大地尊敬。

After this stone tablet was discovered, it was immediately considered a priceless treasure by the European Church. It proved that Christianity had been widely spread in China as early as 1,500 years ago.

However, in the historical records of the Tang Dynasty in China, there is no record about it at all, and there are very few records about Christianity. In other words, in the huge historical records of the Tang Dynasty in China, there is very little information about Christianity, and it is not as popular as described in the inscriptions.

After research by Chinese writing experts, it was finally discovered that the writing style and carving techniques of this stone tablet should be from the Ming Empire period. That was already the 17th century. At that time, many European missionaries came to the Ming Empire, and they had sufficient motivation to forge such stone tablets. This is the truth.

Think for a moment if this stele had been discovered in Europe. And there is no adequate historical literature base to study it. What will be the result?

It will definitely become a "milestone in history" like Hammurabi's Stone. Although it is a fake.

这块石碑被发现之后,立即被欧洲教会认为是无价之宝,它证明了基督教早在1500年前就已经在中国广泛传播。

但是在中国唐代的历史记录中,根本没有关于它的记载,同时也极少有关于基督教的记载。或者说,中国唐代庞大的历史记录中,基督教的信息很少,完全不像碑文上叙述的那么受欢迎。

经过中国文字专家的研究,最终发现这块石碑的文字风格和雕刻手法,应该是明帝国时期的。那已经是17世纪了。当时许多欧洲传教士来到明帝国,他们有充足的动机伪造这样的石碑。这就是真相。

思考一下,如果这块石碑是在欧洲被发现的。并且没有充分的历史文献库来研究它。会是什么结果?

它一定会和汉谟拉比石碑一样,成为「历史的里程碑」。虽然它是一件假货。